I met Nicky at the downtown Manhattan office of Soho Publishing, publishers of Vogue Knitting and sixth & spring books. We went to a neighborhood eatery for lunch; I had hoped for one that was relatively quiet and it did start out that way. The food was wonderful but as the afternoon went on, the place became packed and some of our conversation was drowned out in the clatter and chatter. Nicky was charming and incredibly open, though not everything that was said made it into these pages. I am tremendously impressed by her relentless creativity, her persistence, and her well-deserved rise to the top of the profession.
DORA: How did you get started in the busininess?
NICKY: I got started because I won a McCall’ s knitting contest, in 1981. It was a sweater design contest. At the time, I was working as a stylist for television commercials. We were shooting in the desert for three weeks and I desperately needed something to do. I was in this Winnebago full of these big ad company executives, and we drove past a yarn shop. I begged them to stop, and they gave me 5 minutes, literally, to go in and shop. I grabbed the magazine because I saw “contest.” I did it because I wanted to win the knitting needles. When McCalls called me to tell me I won first prize I knew the needles were third prize. I said, “I’d rather have the needles.” They told me, “Well, first prize is $500, so you can buy the needles.” They laughed about that for years.
DORA: So you had been knitting for a long time?
NICKY: Oh yes. Seriously since I was fourteen, when a Spanish lady taught me fine knitting detail . After that, McCalls asked me make more sweaters and I made another one with with big pearls on it. The rest is history. I started working because I was doing color work, and there weren’t a lot of people doing it at that time. There was a cameraderie among editors we don’t have now. They would send new designers to each other. We used to have breakfast together. It was a smaller community, everyone was in New York. Vogue used to have these shows where the editors would tell the designers what they wanted and they’d give us color forecasts. It was wonderful! That’ s how I met my fellow designers. Now there are many I’ve never met.
DORA: What magazines were around at that time?
NICKY: McCalls, Family Cirlce, Women’s Day, Women’s World, Vogue. Others would pop up and then go away. There were also several yarn companies in the city. There were only about fifteen active designers, and you could make a living, though barely. Today, it’s much more difficult to make a living. If you do a book and it sells, then maybe.
Dora: So what was the next progression in your career.
NICKY: Well, you have to reinvent yourself. That’s why I’ve lasted. Color work got popular, everyone started doing it., so I started doing more stitch work. Then I got into applique. Whatever was going on, I tried to do what hadn’t been done before.
DORA: You have a good instinct for that!
NICKY: Years ago I was trying push free-form knitting, but nobody would buy it. They thought it was too hard. It’s not hard, it just looks hard. That’s what I miss about not having time to teach, because I’m always astounded by how easy things are. Like the scarf I designed which was on the cover of Vogue’s Silver anniversary issue -- it looks complicated, but it’s so easy to make. So yes, reinventing, plus I was willing to do anything. I’ve met some of the young designers who say, “Oh, I can’t knit with that stuff.’ What? The less expensive yarns are what sell the most. I wouldn’t hesitate to use Coats and Clark or cashmere. You can’t be snobby. I took whatever work I could get. At that time, they only came in primary colors. Then Dupont came in and they started producing prettier colors. I’m still proud of what I produced at that time, when yarn was less sophisticated.
DORA: Who was publishing these designs?
NICKY: Magazines, and I sold to yarn companies. I worked directly with their design directors. The fees were about the same at that time that they are today.
DORA: When did your big break come?
NICKY: I did a book with Taunton Press, “The “Knit Hat Book,” it sold 10,000 copies in six months. That was a tremendous amount at that time, and they were so excited Then I did the “Knitted Embellishments” book with Interweave Press. It represented eighteen years of my life, it. Usually when you do a book, it sells the bulk when it first comes out, but this book sells more every year. I also did several Barbie knit and crochet books which sold well. It was the Soho “Knitting on the Edge” book that really put me on the map. At the time knitting was real hot.
DORA: When you say eighteen years of your life, you mean you had been collecting things?
NICKY: Oh yes, I wrote the book for myself, and I use it every day. This is a resource that I would want as a knitter.
DORA: How did the relationship with Soho develop?
NICKY: On a bar stool with Trish Malcom, Editorial Director of Vogue Knitting. I had this idea to do a Barbie book. I had been doing Barbie clothes for years, but magazines weren’t asking for them any more. I called Matttel, and I told them the tradition of knittting for Barbie is going to die right here unless someone writes a book. They said, “OK, send us a proposal.” I did, and three months later they said, “Oh, we approved that.” To get this was amazing, and I didn’t know what to do with it. I’m friends with Trisha, and one night when we were together I told her, “You won’t believe what happened.” She said, “Oh my god, please let us do it.” In all my years no one had every begged me to do something!
DORA: How wonderful!
NICKY: That started the relations with Soho.
DORA: You know Trisha from the business because you’ve both been in it a long time?
NICKY: I’ve worked with many wonderful people from editors to yarn companies to shop owners.. Originally when TNNA was in New York, I’d get the feeling that people wondered what a designer was doing there -- that’s how it was. If you’re not a known designer, it can be hard to get yarn. Now that my books are selling, I’m very welcome at TNNA.
DORA: Why did you first start going?
NICKY: It was suggested by the editors so I would know what yarns were available.
DORA: That’s why I just went to the recent TNNA, to prepare for my Lark book. I prefer to do books while I can, rather than submitting to magazines. With the magazines you work on all these ideas and they may never see the light of day.
NICKY: It’s very hard. For the editors too. They need twelve designs and they see twelve hundred.
DORA: Why don’t they just contact the designers they know and like and contract them for several designs for that season?
NICKY: I’ve reached a point where I am in that position, but it’s hard to get there. You’re not going to start this year and then get there. Although nowadays, some women who haven’t been knitting for very long already have a book deal. I admire it, but the problem is there are so many knitting and crochet books, the market is flooded.
DORA: It seems to me that a lot of publishers get on the bandwagon when something gets popular, but don’t have the knowledge to discriminate what makes a good book.
NICKY: Knitters, when we buy a book, we are looking for content. We’re not going to buy one with twelve garter stitch pieces in it for $29.95. I’m hearing from the shops that most of the books are starting to look alike. A shop has only so much shelf space for books, they have to choose.
DORA: So now you have an office at Soho.
NICKY: Just a temporary one, to complete my “Knitting On Top of the World” book. A lot of times a publisher will keep an office for an author. In my case, the reason is I get more work done when I’m there, rather then at home. Trisha, Adina, Carla Scott, Tanis Gray, they have been fabulous in helping me get a jump start on this book because of my travelling. I’ve been to Italy, Australia, New Zealand and London within 5 months promoting my books. Since I can’t promote and write at the same time, we worked out this arrangmement.
DORA: Which books are you promoting. You have so many!
NICKY: All of them, the edging book, Knitting Never Felt Better, now I have the coverup and scarf book coming out. Crocheted Flowers, which has really sold. It’s unbelievable, I’m so excited about that! I’m a die-hard knitter. My grandmother taught me how to crochet. She was from Italy and they never read patterns, they memorized it. I never learned how to read crochet instructions, but I love crochet and I love designing with it. I think there is so much more that could be done with crochet that hasn’t been. Throughout the years I’ve designed with it, though knitting was always the priority. I published the Knitted Flowers book, and it sold very well. There are not a lot of knitted flowers out there. We used to put crocheted flowers on knitted things. I’m happy to say, since my book came out, people are putting knitted flowers on crochet things! Since that knittted flowers book did so well, they wanted me to do a crocheted flowers book. I’m so pleased with the emails I get from crocheters, asking if I’m planning to do an edging book. And my crochet edging book is coming out in June of this year.
DORA: What you did in the Crochet Flowers books is absolutely gorgeous. How do you work on these books, how do you make them original?
NICKY: I have a friend who is an excellent crocheter. I sit and work with her directly. I guess you don’t do dessert, do you?
DORA: I would have a cappucino or something and split one with you.
NICKY: I’ll tell you a funny story. When I was asked to do Crocheting on the Edge, my first instinct was to say no. I went back to West Virginia where I’m from. My father came upstairs and said “Look what I found!” It was a cardboard box full of my grandmother’s crochet books. They had been in a back corner of the basement. I’m looking through them and seeing these amazing 1920s edgings. I realized this was meant to be and I said “Thank you Nanna!” I brought them back to New York and said yes to Soho. I called in my friend Josephine, and she got so excited. She’s been crocheting for years. We’d look at these books and say, “I’ve never seen this before -- can you do this?” We write down everything and work side by side.
DORA: I’m curious about how you do this. You have an image in your head?
NICKY: I pick stitch patterns and I do a sketch, and I have her do a basic, then I’ll add stuff. I really love crochet because you can add anything, and it’s so much quicker than knitting. For example, the medallions I’ve done, they were classic medallions but I added dimension, I added flowers, I added cord to give it depth, that kind of thing.
DORA: I have a bunch of these old Weldon’s books, the crochet in there is fabulous, but when you don’t do it in thread, it doesn’t always look that good.
NICKY: There are so many components. With the older books, I was very impressed with them. I study them, and sometimes I change things but some things are so perfect and beautiful as they are. I might just try a different yarn. You have to change stitch counts because they worked on these tiny steel hooks.
My least favorite thing is when someone says to me, “Everything’s been done.” The world would be a boring place if everything had been done. Of course we have our knit and purl, our cable, but don’t say that nothing new can be done. Just look in some of my books and you’ll see. For example, the I-cord -- I have tremendous respect for it. I learned it as French cord, but it was called Idiot cord and Elizabeth Zimmerman changed it to I -cord. Zimmerman wrote, “If anyone can show me something interesting to do with I-cord...” I think I’ve done it. No one had really exploited all the possibilities. I did cable with I-cord, I did all kinds of things. I made a frog closure -- I did it out of desperation! You could only buy it in black or white. I bought one and took it apart and figured out how to do it, and the rest is history. That’s been copied beyond belief, but I’m flattered.
There are so many issues for designers, including xeroxing. For example, the Vogue Knitting 25th Anniversay issue, you can’t get that any more. People want to make the scarf on the cover, so how are the yarn stores going to get the pattern? They will xerox it. In order to discourage that, I will put it in my books. I’m also going to do it as a leaflet with Soho. We will do it with several of my favorite pieces, those we know are popular.
I’m very excited about crochet. Guilds want me to teach but I don’t have time. For years I avoided crochet, but they’ve always been desperate for new crochet designers. It’s tricky, it’s a challenge, but I love it.
(The waiter appears)
DORA: Hello can we order some dessert and coffee?
It takes a lot of time to find a stitch pattern to work with certain yarns. What’s your design process?
NICKY: I need to know where I’m going. I start with a sketch. People ask, what inspires you -- everything inspires you. Sometimes it’s a stitch. I start with a certain style or fit. I’m also thinking of the demographic, is it for a young person or an old perosn. Finally after all these years I bought a dress form. I’m so happy with it, I just wish she had arms.
DORA: I got a discarded mannequin from the Express store that was on the street, I like it better than a dummy. She has only one arm and it comes off. You can buy them at one of those shops in the West 30s.
NICKY: I should do that. I’m always asking the thin girls at Soho to try things on for me. I have them strip down to their bras to try on sweaters. They’ve all been really sweet!
DORA: What do you think it is about your design abilities that makes you so well loved.
NICKY: I ty to do something that hasn’t been done before. Editors are always in a rush, and they have to look at proposals very quickly. If there’s not something in there that really jumps out -- and I tell this to new designers all the time -- they are not going to look at it. You have to give it that extra oomph -- the yarn, the stitch pattern, an edging, something that catches their eye. I wanted the work and I did that.
[Waiter finally comes ]
DORA: What’s the best dessert?
NICKY: How about Tarte tatin? (we order it)
I worked with Lola Early from Family Cirlce, and I’d bring her things and she’d say, “It’s nice, but I want more.” I’d think, what’s more? What does that mean? Sure enough, I would do a little twist or a layer, and she encouraged me. I have an art background, and I’d spend a lot of time doing beautiful sketches. Finally she said to me, we don’t pay you for your artwork. She taught me how to do a schematic. People along the way have helped so much, and I want to do the same with new designers. I want to share.
DORA: And you are sharing through your books. It can be hard to get good crochet designs accepted by magazine publishers, they have an idea about what the crocheter wants to make.
NICKY: I have over 1000 designs published in crochet. Because of my art background I did a lot of cross stitch, I love that. I plan to do more again in the future.
DORA: What I find, in crochet, except with very few exceptions, there’s a lot of resistance to anything outside the box. Things are not being published for originality. It’s very tough to get original designs accepted.
NICKY: But now you are doing a book.
DORA: Yes, and I’m happy with how those designs came out. Mmmm, this tart is so delicious. Now with Crocheting on the Edge, do you find yourself drawn to certain edgings?
NICKY: I love fringes. I’m really proud of the fringes because a lot of them are made up.There’s a fringe chapter, a vintage chapter, ribbing, lace. I ‘m staying with the format I used in the knitting books. This is the first in the series, like Knitting on the Edge.
DORA: How do you develop ideas for the book?
NICKY: I often start with a basic pattern, and add ruffles or lace, and layering techniques that I do in knitting. I love crochet appliques. Some of them are on the edgings, like Irish roses. They’re easy to make, and really fun. We need to make them more high fashion.
DORA: It’s always on my mind -- how to make crochet look modern. The fabric is not going to drape in worsted weight yarn unless you do an openwork stitch or very large stitches. But large stitches look so seventies. Do you find that too?
NICKY: Oh yes, even with knitting. But crochet is harder. I love the lace look of classic cotton. If you knit something you can crochet it. It’s easier to get a lacy look in crochet.
DORA: It’s the obvious thing to do with heavier weight yarns -- make lace so it will have drape. But I tried to stay away from it because everyone was doing it. Then finally for my first book I thought, I can’t just ignore this whole tradition and I did some big lace, using large, overall patterns. I’m always asking, what else can we do? It’s a challenge.
NICKY: It’s a good challenge, I’m enjoying it.
DORA: Where did you go to school?
NICKY: I went to Columbus College of Art and Design. I have a degree in Fine Arts and retail advertising.
DORA: Where did you think you were going at that time?
NICKY: I wanted to be an art director, and I was an art director for a short time in New York. I just didn’t like going into the office. I’m a free spirit, I felt like I was in a cage. I enjoyed the art part and did well for about a year and a half. A friend of mine in adveritising called and said he needed a stylist to dress a Humphrey Bogart look alike for a Ford commercial. I said, “Sure,” and went to Burberry and got a coat and hat. I started working for my friend and was making $500 a day. I quit the art director job. Then I met my husband. We were both travelling and I realized one of us was going to have to quit. He was making lots more money, so I was the one who quit. But then I won that contest. I realized I could design and travel with him.
DORA: That’s great! Let me ask about your strong interest in embellishments.
NICKY: The Interweave Knitted Embellishments book was supposed to be an edging book. I was working on it and I dropped a ruffle and it turned into a rose. I was like a kid in a candy shop! I got so excited, and was sending all these things to Interweave. They said, “Keep doing it.” This should have been five books. I always give plenty of bang for your buck. Until you’ve done a book you don’t understand the work involved. For an embellishment book, you have to think of all these things. And I have to be a in a good mood to be more creative. At the end of the day, if I’ve only done ten new things, I feel bad.
DORA: You know you need so many ideas for a book. What’s your process for generating them?
NICKY: I should knock on wood when I say this, I don’t lack for ideas. God blessed me in that way. When I see something I’ve done, or someone else has done, it always inspires me to do something else, a little different. I’ll give you an example. I just did an Aran sweater. I wanted it to be different, because God knows we’ve done Aran sweaters before. So I did an off the shoulder design, with points on the sleeve cuffs. When my knitter finished the sample, I put little pearls on it. I had already thought of the pearls when I picked the cables, because years ago I’d done a sweater with pearls that came out beautifully. Sure enough, when I put the pearls on it -- dynamite! Then I lined the cuffs with little pearls, different sized ones, then I thought, “Wouldn’t that look good with a velvet ribbon around it?” The next day I looked at it and thought I’d like to put a plume on it. I had this Tilli Tomas yarn with plumes and put it on the neckline. Then I’m looking at it and saying, “It’s good, but what if it was a dress? Let’s get some fabric for it! “ So now I have someone who’s going to sew skirt on it. It goes from being nice to being. . .
DORA: Wow!
NICKY: Right! For a class, I’ll bring the pink capelet from my Over the Edge book. By itself, it’s a cute little capelet. Stick a rose at the neck -- better. Stick a bunch of roses all along the bottom -- bam! Add fringe -- there you go!
DORA: So would you say that what stimulates your creativity is complexity?
NICKY: Some if my best designs are very simple. It could be a shape. It doesn’t have to be embellishments, layering. I just go for the unique, it’s my favorite word. You put a lot of time and effort into this art form, it should be special. Knitting is an art form even more than crochet. You can learn how to crochet. I’m still learning knitting, you never learn everything.
DORA: Same with crochet, there are so many techniiques -- hairpin, tapestry. Some things I don’t have time to learn, though I’d love to.
NICKY: I ‘m also inspired by travelling. My husband is a Europhile and we love to travel.
DORA: You’ve got so much going on, does it ever feel like a burden?
NICKY: I’m in a great place. I’ve got “Crocheting on theEdge” and “Nicky Epstein’s Signature Scarves” coming out in May and June. In the fall, “Nicky Epstein’s Knitting on Top of the World.” It’s a design book using and describing knitting techniques from around the world. It started out as a series of small books, one on Aran knitting, one on Fair Isle knitting, different traditions, but it’s evolved into an ambitious, work-intensive book that I think all knitters will want to have in their libraries. And I had a ball designing and creating new twists on world knitting techniques, some of which have been around for centuries.
DORA: Can’t wait to see that, even though I don’t knit. That and all the other books coming down the pike. Brava Nicky, you’re an inspiration to all of us!
